{"id":33259,"date":"2019-06-26T12:39:33","date_gmt":"2019-06-26T12:39:33","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.bwsailing.com\/cc\/?p=33259"},"modified":"2019-06-26T12:39:33","modified_gmt":"2019-06-26T12:39:33","slug":"should-sailors-be-certified-the-question-gets-revisited","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.bwsailing.com\/cc\/2019\/06\/should-sailors-be-certified-the-question-gets-revisited\/","title":{"rendered":"Should Sailors Be Certified? The Question Gets Revisited"},"content":{"rendered":"

Back in April, I wrote a<\/em> Just Cruising column asking the simple question, \u201cShould sailors be certified?\u201d\u00a0 We got a ton of response from CC readers. Last week, <\/em>Scuttlebutt picked up the column and re-published it, with my email address attached. Well, sailors have a lot to say on the subject and here are some of the responses we got this week.\u00a0 GD<\/em><\/p>\n

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George, you must be kidding.\u00a0 Sailing is one of the few remaining activities open to everyone.\u00a0 There are many aspects of sailing that can be accomplished in more than one way – yet each may be correct.\u00a0 Learning by experience is valuable in development of thinking skills in people of all ages, but especially in young people.\u00a0 Requiring certification would remove much of this opportunity, and further raise the price of entry into our sport.<\/p>\n

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Classes are an excellent idea for those who desire them.\u00a0 Charter and insurance companies that require or simply reward those who take courses in various aspects of sailing may do so, of course.\u00a0\u00a0Requiring<\/em>\u00a0a course simply gratifies those would-be gurus that would tell us all how to do\u00a0everything<\/em>!\u00a0 The last thing we need are more “experts”.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

I taught myself the basics of sailing as a youth then left the sport for 20 years.\u00a0 Later my son did attend our club sailing school as an 8 year old and then sailed with us to NZ and return, a formative two and a half year event for each of us.\u00a0 My wife and I have two such trips to NZ under our belts, and that was\u00a0before <\/em>GPS.\u00a0 (Yes, I did on-the-job training for celestial navigation as well.)\u00a0 Later in life, we still day-sail regularly.<\/p>\n

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Don’t take the opportunity for learning self-reliance away from sailing.<\/p>\n

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Tom Hill<\/p>\n

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George<\/p>\n

I think this is a great topic. Have been sailing all my life and I feel very privileged to have experienced fantastic adventures, different countries visited by seaports, the experience to cross the oceans, to introduce my kids to the sport of sailing and to invite non sailors the opportunity to share in my experiences. There truly is no life like it. We as sailors have been blessed.<\/p>\n

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My concern is sailing as a sport is dying. My wife and I just spent last winter sailing in the BVI Virgins Islands. I was appalled with the people who charter boats, catamarans (which I don’t even consider a boat.) They never put up a sail because they have no idea how to sail. They just motor. The disasters we witnessed are unbelievable, and we were hit twice in our boat both times while alongside at a dock. Seamanship has gone by the wayside. Racing is the new professional yardstick, and the false sense that if you race, you are a sailor.<\/p>\n

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I have watched Junior Sailing programs here in Canada. It is the blind teaching the blind. It’s all about racing and nothing about seamanship. Most of the instructors have never sailed any distance and the only reason they are instructors is because their parents are on the Board of Directors at the club.<\/p>\n

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Sadly, in Canada, government regulations have taken over sailing programs and theory prevails and not practical experience. Everything is taught by the book, and again experience doesn’t seem to come into the equation. No wonder people who go out after taking a sailing course are scared to death when the wind starts to blow. and if you ever want to take the “Maritime Restricted Operator’s Certificate” in Canada, put out by Industry Canada, well you will understand how sad our programs are. You can even take the course on-line so you can cheat.<\/p>\n

Its easy to sail, its entirely different when things go wrong. Seamanship is what we need to certified.<\/p>\n

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Regards<\/p>\n

Jock Macrae<\/p>\n

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George,<\/p>\n

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I just read your article in Scuttlebut.\u00a0 Great read!!!\u00a0 I am by trade a professional mariner licensed by the USCG with an unlimited 3rd mate and a 1600 master, long and short is I have about every certification I can get except sailing, that being\u00a0said, I used to hold a US Sailing instructor certificate and presently race a Prindle 19 beach cat.<\/p>\n

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I say all that to say this.\u00a0 I dont think making things mandatory would help situations out any.\u00a0 As a towboat captain I see some of the most ridiculous, crazy, brainless stuff you can imagine, both by licensed and unlicensed mariners.\u00a0 In Texas we have a requirement to take boaters education for all motor vessel operators born after a certain date and all PwC operators regardless.\u00a0 At present there is no requirement for sailing vessels.<\/p>\n

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Mandating licenses or certification to some degree becomes a money grab for the state doing the licensing.\u00a0 For instance, look at the drivers licensing in Texas, Houston to be specific where I live.\u00a0 There is a total disregard for all rules of the road and almost a lawlessness to go with it.\u00a0 Has requiring a driver\u2019s license helped?\u00a0 Not a bit, I feel on the water would be no different.\u00a0 I see it all the time especially with PwC operators who seem to have a total disregard for all rules of the road and etiquette, that is not all of them but a large majority.\u00a0 Just 2 days ago there were 3 killed and 4 injured in a massive crash up on Lake Conroe north of Houston where a large ski boat ran over a bass boat that was under way not making way, I don’t know the rest of the details but both boats surely had to have taken Texas’ boater education.\u00a0 We can\u2019t go a weekend in the summer over here without hearing stories of boaters having incidents on the water ways.\u00a0 Even licensed mariners are part of that culture.\u00a0 I can’t understand how somebody that passes a USCG licensing exam that includes rules of the road can\u2019t abide by them or even understand them, but I digress.<\/p>\n

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I wish my boater\u2019s insurance would take into account my masters certification, it sure would be nice.\u00a0 In closing, I don\u2019t think the state should mandate something of the sort.\u00a0 I feel that it should be up to the insurance provider to stipulate the conditions of insurance, or the rental agency.\u00a0 Would it help if maybe it were voluntary?\u00a0 Probably not.\u00a0 Would a break on discount rates be nice, sure would.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Captain Chris Holley<\/p>\n

Relief Captain M\/V Bill English<\/em><\/p>\n

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Hi George;<\/p>\n

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I would like to offer a few of my own thoughts. I\u00a0try to rationalize issues such as this using logic, based on the likelihood of occurrence of a problem multiplied by the severity of that problem, in the same way risks are assessed in the engineering world. Applying this process to skippering your own boat without a certificate, an incident could be catastrophic (or not), but is unlikely to happen in most cases, as the vast majority of people have enough common sense not to attempt anything too adventurous until they feel they have accumulated enough knowledge and experience to do so.<\/p>\n

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There will always be a number of boating incidents every year, as nothing is risk free, but without proper data on the level of formal certification of the skippers involved and whether lack of training contributed to the incidents, mapped to the nature and outcome of the incidents, it is impossible to quantify the real value of certification.<\/p>\n

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On the other hand, everyone has the ability to learn something through formal training no matter how experienced they are. My point is merely, ‘would certification make a quantifiable and worthwhile reduction in the risk of skippering a boat to the extent that we would see a marked reduction in loss of life, emergency rescues and insurance claims?’<\/p>\n

I personally feel the answer is that it probably would not and that insistence of certification would merely be another source of income for the maritime authorities and schools.<\/p>\n

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It is tempting to insist on certification as a must-have without first assessing the real value of it, however, in the bureaucratic culture that prevails today, there will always be a cohort of risk averse people ready to criticize anyone who dares to say certification is not necessary.<\/p>\n

Your article was very interesting and indeed thought provoking.<\/p>\n

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Regards, Cara Fowler<\/p>\n

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Hi George,<\/p>\n

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As a licensed captain and ASA Sailing Instructor, I would say the answer is more convoluted than a yes or no. I’ve found experience is more valuable than some stamp in a logbook. An “honest” sailing resume has more weight to me than a Bareboat Charter Certification from a sailing school.<\/p>\n

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However, I do believe that someone operating a boat of any kind should take a boat safety class and understand the Navigation Rules before taking the helm, but especially a sailboat where danger lurks just above your head. On a recent charter my mainsheet shackle attached to the traveler broke and the boom swung wildly to leeward. After their initial shock, my passengers then looked at me and said “Now I understand why you instructed us to only travel on the high side(windward) when moving forward and back.”<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Captain Keith<\/p>\n

New Jersey Sailing Center LLC<\/p>\n

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George,<\/p>\n

I liked your short query article on certification, and especially the idea of a insurance break for those with certification. I don’t think a certificate of competency should be required on a boat, but I would welcome an actual boating course of some sort (powerboaters, especially, don’t seem to know the rule of the road or the basics of the COLREGS).<\/p>\n

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I do have an ASA 104 certification, and I wouldn’t have wanted to charter without it (I simply felt more competent, and I’m sure my charter company was not displeased to know that their boat was in competent hands), But I also like the idea of qualification by sailing resume. As you mentioned there are many good sailors out there who don’t have certification but tons of experience and a lot of sea miles under their belt. I don’t think they should be excluded from chartering.<\/p>\n

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One quick note on a question you posed: A certificate of competency does not allow someone to sail for hire or carry passengers. That’s an actual captain’s license from (in our case) the USCG. It is so much more involved than the ICC (or equivalent).<\/p>\n

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The certificate of competency (ICC), by the way, can only be issued by a national sailing body from a country that is the signatory of the UN Resolution 40. The US is not such a signatory (which includes most of Europe and South Africa). The ASA, however, offers an International Proficiency Certificate (which can be requested for a fee upon completion of the ASA 104-Bareboat Certification). It’s not exactly the same thing, and it may or may not be accepted as the equivalent of the ICC (depending on the charter company).<\/p>\n

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Wayne<\/p>\n

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Sounds like there is a dollar to be made, George.<\/p>\n

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If someone passed legislation requiring a certificate how many people would be compelled to enroll in sailing school? What a boom for the industry that would be. I don’t presume a sailor could pass a competency test to get the certificate. I’m sure they would have to attend the weekend-long class and fork over the tuition no matter\u00a0what their level of experience and knowledge.<\/p>\n

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In my experience most new legislation makes money for someone and are typically supported by the people who will make the money. I’m sure that sounds jaded but this one sure feels like a money grab to me.<\/p>\n

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Rob Edgcombe<\/p>\n

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Dear Mr. Day,<\/p>\n

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I\u2019ve run a business certifying sailors, first with ASA, then with US Sailing, for 35 years. Now 5 years retired, I\u2019m a volunteer leader for US Sailing, on the board of directors.\u00a0 Part of my role is in trying to make sailing \u2018stickier\u2019 for youth and adult sailors.\u00a0 I have some miscellaneous comments for you to sift through in case they prove helpful.\u00a0 I realize some are tangent to your request, so apologies in advance.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

As you say, You need proof of proficiency to captain a vessel in the Med (in most countries.\u00a0 The European Union has decreed that all sailors in EU waters possess \u2018proof\u2019 of competency to increase safety and reduce the pressure on emergency services.\u00a0 So, charter companies require it, but only to comply with the EU\u2019s administering of UN 40. (of which the US is not a signatory).<\/p>\n

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US Sailing offers an International Proficiency Certificate to those sailors who\u2019ve earned their Bareboat Cruising Certification, which has been accepted by European charter companies since its creation in the early part of the 2000s.\u00a0 It costs $25.<\/p>\n

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To sort of answer your question:\u00a0 Every sailor I know, from my most grizzled instructors and cruisers to race competitors and elite sailors, will learn something valuable just going through the evaluation process without any formal training.\u00a0 There are lots of \u2018best practices\u2019 and little known regulations that have failed to surface during the \u2018sailing as much as I can while learning from others\u2019 stage of most sailors\u2019 lives.\u00a0 So, in my opinion, formal skills and knowledge certification is valuable for everyone. An experienced and skilled sailor will pass almost every time and the process is about an hour of written exams and two hours OTW with a certified instructor.\u00a0 AND, will learn a ton in the process.\u00a0 Little things, like the granular details of a proper return to a person in water in a variety of conditions or type of vessel, for instance.\u00a0 (75% of experienced sailors have never bothered to perform an MOB drill, other than retrieving a hat)\u00a0 All that said, I\u2019m careful to avoid the word \u2018should\u2019 as often the road to damnation is paved with those good intentions.\u00a0 But, there\u2019s more value in the exercise than just having a card or logbook, or being able to captain a boat in France or Greece or Croatia.<\/p>\n

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My experience, having examined hundreds of experienced sailors for instructor positions or to provide them with the Bareboat Cruising Certification via challenge evaluation, is that most experienced amateur sailors have developed a perception of their own skills that may or may not be accurate or previously evaluated, but is closely held. The more years under one\u2019s belt, the more closely held that view.\u00a0 When I evaluate professionals (charter captains, practicing instructors) I see much less of that as they\u2019ve already had to demonstrate skills and knowledge and have already filled most of the holes in their skills and knowledge.<\/p>\n

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Now for some landscape (that\u2019s code for things I\u2019d like you to know that you didn\u2019t ask about!):<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

America has chosen a different path from the EU, choosing to avoid a full examination of a boater\u2019s competency (skill and knowledge). However, the \u2018knowledge\u2019 standard you referenced, created by NASBLA (National Association of State Boating Law Administrators) is a middle ground. These state \u2018boater\u2019s education\u2019 requirements are a simple, inexpensive way for boaters to gain some of the safety and regulatory knowledge that makes them (and other boaters) safer on the water. \u00a0These are classroom or online knowledge based courses.\u00a0 There are even some online courses provided at little or no expense. Their popularity with those 42 states stems from the fact they are a big boating safety bang for the buck as the states\u2019 only expense is oversight and standards updating.<\/p>\n

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NASBLA and the USCG Boating Safety office point to this boater education as well as public initiatives promoting life jacket wear and discouraging boating under the influence (also, improvements in vessel construction and the advent of GPS, of course)contributing to the drop of boating deaths from around 2000 annually in the early 70s to under 700 a year now, even though boating hours have dramatically increased from those days.<\/p>\n

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Now, the USCG Boating Safety Office has created a series of grants to standardize on water skills training, not to step toward licensing of boaters but to avoid the need.\u00a0 The National On-Water Standard, (NOWS) was created by scores of subject matter experts in three disciplines – Sail, Power and Human Powered.\u00a0 This set of standards is in tool-kit format, helping boating safety schools build and maintain their curriculums in a way that promotes joy of boating as well as competency and safety.\u00a0 More information can be found at\u00a0www.usnows.org<\/a>\u00a0.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Since formal training was instituted nationally, US Sailing\u2019s small boat training scheme from early 80\u2019s, ASA\u2019s keelboat scheme in mid 80\u2019s and US Sailing\u2019s keelboat scheme in mid 90\u2019s, sailing\u2019s accident, injury and death statistics have steadily declined faster than those of power boating or human\u00a0 powered craft (canoes, kayaks, rowboats).<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Again, apologies for the info you didn\u2019t ask for!<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Richard Jepsen<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Back in April, I wrote a Just Cruising column asking the simple question, \u201cShould sailors be certified?\u201d\u00a0 We got a ton of response from CC readers. Last week, Scuttlebutt picked up the column and re-published it, with my email address attached. Well, sailors have a lot to say on the subject and here are some of the responses we got this week.\u00a0 GD     George, you must be kidding.\u00a0 Sailing is one of the few remaining activities open to everyone.\u00a0 There are many aspects of sailing that can be accomplished in more than one way – yet each may be correct.\u00a0 Learning by experience is valuable in development of thinking skills in people of all ages, but especially in young people.\u00a0 Requiring certification would remove much of this opportunity, and further raise the price of entry into our sport.   Classes are an excellent idea for those who desire them.\u00a0 Charter and insurance companies that require or simply reward those who take courses in various aspects of sailing may do so, of course.\u00a0\u00a0Requiring\u00a0a course simply gratifies those would-be gurus that would tell us all how to do\u00a0everything!\u00a0 The last thing we need are more “experts”.   I taught myself …<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":33260,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":[],"categories":[1877],"tags":[779,1921],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.bwsailing.com\/cc\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/33259"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.bwsailing.com\/cc\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.bwsailing.com\/cc\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.bwsailing.com\/cc\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/3"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.bwsailing.com\/cc\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=33259"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/www.bwsailing.com\/cc\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/33259\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":33261,"href":"https:\/\/www.bwsailing.com\/cc\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/33259\/revisions\/33261"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.bwsailing.com\/cc\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/33260"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.bwsailing.com\/cc\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=33259"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.bwsailing.com\/cc\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=33259"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.bwsailing.com\/cc\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=33259"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}